7 thoughts on “links for 2007-12-29

  1. Makeesha Fisher

    is it too horrible that I couldn’t read a book that is endorsed by DA Carson and sounds pretentious in its attempt to “prick pretensions”?

    I recently had a conversation with someone who by all estimations is in the emerging stream but refuses to be called emerging or emergent or whatever….I told him that I think people like that strike me as too good for the stream, that they think they’re “better than…” The same for people who refuse to use the term “egalitarian” when speaking of relationships between men and women that are inclusive. It just seems odd to me.

    Did you read this book or just struck by the quote?

  2. ed Post author

    The book’s not out yet. I linked to a promo post. I looked around and basically everyone has a list of chapters and the list of endorsements. I guess I just find the book interesting because it’s a new angle to the conversation. Well, at least it proposes to be a new angle. So I linked to it out of curiosity. I’m curious to see where they’re going and why they don’t want to be called emergent.

    Part of my own curiosity is that I really stay out of the pro-emergent/anti-emergent debates lately. In fact, I often chaff at calling myself missional or Emergent because in my mind they are just parts of a much larger whole. Emergent informs some of how I approach theology and missional defines who I relate that theology to real life, but of course there is more to my Christian faith than these two important concepts/conversations. I really like some of what emergent is up to and I think it has a lot of good stuff going on, but I really hesitate to jump in with both feet because I really just want to see it as a conversation and not as an identity or badge. I guess it boils down to how seriously I take emergent. I use them, talk with them, but I really wrestle with saying “I’m emergent.”

    I like the talk about emergent being kind of nebulous and hard to define because it’s such a large, diverse conversation. I’m intrigued when some don’t want to be a part of that. I wonder where they’re coming from, even if they have a thing for D.A. Carson, the granddaddy of biblical exegesis, but not necessarily of culturally informed theology. Of course they’ll say their own views are the best, we all do that, but I wonder if they’re just trying to act superior or if they really have something important to add to this conversation.

    If I were a betting man, I’d place my money on your feeling…

  3. Makeesha Fisher

    LOL….nah, you’re just being more fair than I am. I’m sure they do have something good to say – or at least 1 or 2 of something good 😉

    I don’t take my “religion” seriously at all period. At least not in any personal sense. I take Jesus and his values seriously – love, compassion, kindness, justice – but religion and theology is created by man and THAT I can’t take very seriously. Plus, generally speaking, I’m a cracked eikon like everyone else and I’ve changed my mind so many times I can’t get too hung up on any one thing at any given season of my life.

    I’m not pro labels or anti labels – I’m very rational and realistic about them – they just ARE. They exist, they will never cease as far as I can tell and so I’d rather use them to my benefit than fuss over what I am or am not. I use all sorts of terms to describe how I feel about all sorts of things depending on the context. I find “emergent” a helpful term sometimes, and a not so helpful term at other times. I find feminist useful at times, and not so much other times…it all depends on what I’m trying to communicate at that moment to that particular “audience”

    I’m with you on the emerging-missional thing, in fact, I like how you sum it up.

    I was just curious anyway, I’m glad you didn’t find my comment off putting, it was intended to be a little light hearted but reading it again it sounds kind of harsh. So thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.

    hope you’re well, we haven’t “talked” much lately

  4. Makeesha Fisher

    oh, I also wanted to address the issue of pro/anti emergent debate.

    for the past year to year and a half I wasn’t able to stay out of it. I was dragged into it because of our position as leaders in our previous church but now that we’re no longer there and it’s a non issue, I’m able to avoid it more and more and finding that very nice :) however, the issues that got me in trouble before are still issues in the church universal and are still things I like to flesh out and discuss and they just happen to be issues that are being tackled by Emergent Village as a conversation and those folks who do consider themselves part of the emerging movement and the missional paradigm.

    so in that respect, I have a smidge of loyalty tied up in emergent, emerging, missional and even to lesser degrees organic, simple and progressive

  5. ed Post author

    Right on. I think I agree with you on just about all points there. Yeah, I did take your first comment as being a bit peeved (maybe you received bad Christmas presents or whatever, I could only speculate), so I’m glad you clarified.

    My views and “feelings” on the emergent-missional thing are hard to explain without sounding like a weak-kneed flake. “Well I really like them, but they’re not too important, though I talk about them all of the time…” Perhaps it’s just those moments when they become too large, too important, too much in the place of Jesus that I catch myself. I find myself speaking about something that Emergent or Missional should help me do, and then I stop myself. “Wait, I just replaced Jesus!”

    Ah the complexities of life. Thanks for swinging by to give my lazy link some life. Hope you and your family had a splendid Christmas!

  6. Makeesha Fisher

    yes indeed, I see what you’re saying.

    I was a bit peeved – but not at you just at the whole “I’m not emergent cuz you are and you suck” vibe that I get from people who talk about this stuff – and write books about it apparently. 😉 I got really peeved with Bob Hyatt awhile back and I dig Hyatt otherwise – when he referenced Fitch saying that he doesn’t call himself egalitarian….even though he his, as is Fitch hehe

    it just seems all so “I’m too good for labels” to me and that does sort of get my panties in a bunch….but that’s a personal problem that you don’t need to worry about 😉

    Christmas was good overall. David’s grandma died on Christmas Eve so that was a bummer but otherwise it was all good.

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