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	<title>Comments on: Picking Apart Dobson&#8217;s Critique of Obama&#8217;s Theology While Sipping Wine</title>
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	<link>http://inamirrordimly.com/2008/06/24/picking-apart-dobsons-critique-of-obamas-theology-while-sipping-wine/</link>
	<description>A theology and culture blog with the Bible in one tab and a news feed in the other.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Swinging from the Vine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; the prophets are speaking</title>
		<link>http://inamirrordimly.com/2008/06/24/picking-apart-dobsons-critique-of-obamas-theology-while-sipping-wine/#comment-1699</link>
		<dc:creator>Swinging from the Vine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; the prophets are speaking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://inamirrordimly.com/2008/06/24/picking-apart-dobsons-critique-of-obamas-theology-while-sipping-wine/#comment-1699</guid>
		<description>[...] Jake Bouma on ReutersBob at the CornerEd Cyzewski [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jake Bouma on ReutersBob at the CornerEd Cyzewski [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://inamirrordimly.com/2008/06/24/picking-apart-dobsons-critique-of-obamas-theology-while-sipping-wine/#comment-1697</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://inamirrordimly.com/2008/06/24/picking-apart-dobsons-critique-of-obamas-theology-while-sipping-wine/#comment-1697</guid>
		<description>I think the broader point he's making is that context matters and religion brings with it a certain level of complexity. Our humility in handling this complexity will help prevent unnecessary rifts.  He's also addressing the way we can have separation of church and state, while still allowing religion to guide us. Here's the whole context of it:

"Moreover, given the increasing diversity of America's population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.

And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let's read our bibles. Folks haven't been reading their bibles.

This brings me to my second point. Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all."

Here's a chunk from a part of the speech following that:

"Even those who claim the Bible's inerrancy make distinctions between Scriptural edicts, sensing that some passages - the Ten Commandments, say, or a belief in Christ's divinity - are central to Christian faith, while others are more culturally specific and may be modified to accommodate modern life.

The American people intuitively understand this, which is why the majority of Catholics practice birth control and some of those opposed to gay marriage nevertheless are opposed to a Constitutional amendment to ban it. Religious leadership need not accept such wisdom in counseling their flocks, but they should recognize this wisdom in their politics.

But a sense of proportion should also guide those who police the boundaries between church and state. Not every mention of God in public is a breach to the wall of separation - context matters. It is doubtful that children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance feel oppressed or brainwashed as a consequence of muttering the phrase "under God." I didn't. Having voluntary student prayer groups use school property to meet should not be a threat, any more than its use by the High School Republicans should threaten Democrats. And one can envision certain faith-based programs - targeting ex-offenders or substance abusers - that offer a uniquely powerful way of solving problems."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the broader point he&#8217;s making is that context matters and religion brings with it a certain level of complexity. Our humility in handling this complexity will help prevent unnecessary rifts.  He&#8217;s also addressing the way we can have separation of church and state, while still allowing religion to guide us. Here&#8217;s the whole context of it:</p>
<p>&#8220;Moreover, given the increasing diversity of America&#8217;s population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.</p>
<p>And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson&#8217;s, or Al Sharpton&#8217;s? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it&#8217;s doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let&#8217;s read our bibles. Folks haven&#8217;t been reading their bibles.</p>
<p>This brings me to my second point. Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God&#8217;s will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a chunk from a part of the speech following that:</p>
<p>&#8220;Even those who claim the Bible&#8217;s inerrancy make distinctions between Scriptural edicts, sensing that some passages - the Ten Commandments, say, or a belief in Christ&#8217;s divinity - are central to Christian faith, while others are more culturally specific and may be modified to accommodate modern life.</p>
<p>The American people intuitively understand this, which is why the majority of Catholics practice birth control and some of those opposed to gay marriage nevertheless are opposed to a Constitutional amendment to ban it. Religious leadership need not accept such wisdom in counseling their flocks, but they should recognize this wisdom in their politics.</p>
<p>But a sense of proportion should also guide those who police the boundaries between church and state. Not every mention of God in public is a breach to the wall of separation - context matters. It is doubtful that children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance feel oppressed or brainwashed as a consequence of muttering the phrase &#8220;under God.&#8221; I didn&#8217;t. Having voluntary student prayer groups use school property to meet should not be a threat, any more than its use by the High School Republicans should threaten Democrats. And one can envision certain faith-based programs - targeting ex-offenders or substance abusers - that offer a uniquely powerful way of solving problems.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Virgil</title>
		<link>http://inamirrordimly.com/2008/06/24/picking-apart-dobsons-critique-of-obamas-theology-while-sipping-wine/#comment-1695</link>
		<dc:creator>Virgil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://inamirrordimly.com/2008/06/24/picking-apart-dobsons-critique-of-obamas-theology-while-sipping-wine/#comment-1695</guid>
		<description>"Does that sound like distortion, or an acknowledgement of complexity?"

It sounds like ignorance of old vs. new or a purposeful distortion of the renewed world in which we live now, namely the Kingdom of God.  I am the first to jump on Dobson when he is out of line, but Obama's masquerade of the Scripture is beyond offensive and ignorant.  Putting the old against the new...after the old was fulfilled and ceased to essentially matter is simply put...idiotic.  And then throw in some language about "slavery" and "the Bush justice department" and man...you end up with some big-bang election crap right there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Does that sound like distortion, or an acknowledgement of complexity?&#8221;</p>
<p>It sounds like ignorance of old vs. new or a purposeful distortion of the renewed world in which we live now, namely the Kingdom of God.  I am the first to jump on Dobson when he is out of line, but Obama&#8217;s masquerade of the Scripture is beyond offensive and ignorant.  Putting the old against the new&#8230;after the old was fulfilled and ceased to essentially matter is simply put&#8230;idiotic.  And then throw in some language about &#8220;slavery&#8221; and &#8220;the Bush justice department&#8221; and man&#8230;you end up with some big-bang election crap right there.</p>
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